3 responses
3 thoughts on “3 Levels of Testimonies – part 1” Jeff March 28, 2016 at 11:00 pm Assuming that people believe the intellectual rhetoric presented above, do they want Steve Murphy as their Priesthood Head ? If so they are welcome — Presuming that the above discourse is correct –SM has made different accusations against Heads of Priesthood and lost all of them. He currently sits as a disfellowshipped non relevant person — one who proposed that he would write a letter disavowing his previous accusations against the Priesthood Council , but never had the courage to do so. So I guess those people who think he is right, need to answer the discourse in the affirmative .. His intellectual reasoning although substantial in length , is short on accuracy ! He also tries to make the assumption that his discernment or testimony is celestial in its nature and is the only version which is the possible version of truth . Brother Owen was correct –There is no split between the Council and Montana –Just happens to be between certain people who happen to live in Montana and the Council . There are many people who live in Montana who truly support the Priesthood Council . Just some things to ponder on – Jeff
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sm March 29, 2016 at 8:27 am Dear Brother Jeff, Your loyalty and straight forwardness does not offend me. I love those attributes in you. You study and you think and you feel deeply. These are traits that you have developed over many years of toil and sincere seeking for truth. You have made yourself very clear that you don’t like the way I think, the doctrine I proclaim nor do you agree with my some of my actions. I am also alright within myself regarding your judgments of me. I hope they will prove to be “righteous judgments” or accusations when your judgments are judged at the Bar of God. A few questions, Brother Jeff: 1. Where does your accusation of me come from that I am proclaiming myself to be the head of priesthood? Have I ever said or even implied such a thing? Cite your strong proof dear Brother for I don’t personally believe any such thing! Are all who are putting forth doctrine as though it is truth, also proclaiming themselves as presiding in your mind? Does that include you dear Brother? 2. My charges against Joe, George, Chevrol, Lynn, Owen and LaMoine are published for all to see and to judge for themselves. If there is no truth in them doctrinally [scripturally] or in the veracity of the Spirit then you are right, they are not worthy even of small mention. 3. I agree with you that I am not a very significant person in and of myself. We agree on that. I do sit every Sunday in the AUB audience unable to partake of the Sacrament, unable to speak or participate by the decree of the Ten, which decree came of a knee-jerk reaction borne of fear resulting from my first two essays, now Blog 6 & 7 on my site. Whether that dis-fellowshipping was legal and lawful will yet be determined in a future tribunal, for which they will be accountable to God Himself. But it has to be obvious to all who have pondered their angry decree how it did not follow correct priesthood principle or doctrine at all! I realize it is now difficult for them to go back and make it right or even correct it a little bit while all in the Work are watching them so carefully. 4. Brother Jeff, you mentioned your interpretation of what a split is or is not, but you didn’t comment on the second part of Brother Owen’s “revelation” of the heavens being opened to him in reference to Joe, George and Chevrol being pure and accepted by our Heavenly Father while at the same time they were sexually abusing their daughters. How do you explain that away, dear Brother? Are you going to spin that problematic “prophesy” away by blaming it on me as well? The letter that I promised Brothers Harry, Ron and Glen has been delivered to them and even published for all to read and pray about. See: http://learnjustice.posthaven.com/our-only-solu... To clarify, as I remember it, I promised them that I would write down my position and present it to them in as soft a manner as I knew how. They asked me to recant my blogs 6 & 7, but how can I deny what I verily believe to be the truth – to now be a falsehood? If my beliefs were that frail and fickle then they certainly would not be convictions born of the Spirit, would they? Lastly, dear Brother, please be careful with the spirit you allow to possess you while defending “your testimony” as it has been revealed to you. Sincerely, your brother, sm
— A posthaven user
sm April 11, 2016 at 7:55 am A STORY and A FEW QUESTIONS IN RESPONSE TO 3 OF THE IDEAS EXPRESSED BY “Utah Saints April 9, 2016 at 11:43 am” https://turmoilwithinaub.wordpress.com/2016/03/... My Stake President’s Experience which he shared with me: Years ago while talking with my Stake President [presides over 2000 to 5000 members] he told me the following experience he had had. He was doing a routine recommend interview of an old faithful and saintly member of his stake. She had married in the temple and had raised 8 children all of whom had gone on missions and many had become bishops and stake presidents themselves. Now she was in her 80’s, and her faithful husband had passed on. The president told me he was caught off guard when she started to sob uncontrollably and it took him more than 10 minutes to calm her down so she could speak intelligibly. The cause of her distress went back some 60 years before. She was a young beautiful woman, from a very prominent family but she had let her guard down and surrendered her chastity one night on a date. She never told anybody. She went through interview after interview over 60 years and never confessed her very serious sin. She never repented until over 60 years later. She was now a great grandmother and was dearly loved by all who knew her and deeply revered as a worthy example of what a true latter-day saint should be. She held all the positions a faithful woman could hold in her wards and stakes where she resided. She was a model and beautiful example of what a virtuous latter-day saint sister should be. But a huge chunk of her foundation was a lie. She had built upon a sandy foundation for over 6 decades – a foundation of continual deceit, lying and cover-up. This sin ate away at her very joy and peace for all those years until her health broke and she was now reduced to the state of being inconsolable. Now as an old woman she finally went through all the steps of the repentance process with no sophistry or guile. She was eventually forgiven by the Lord and all could see the change in her countenance and her health even markedly improved her Stake President related to me. Here is the question that his story suggests to me: DO SINS BURIED ALIVE EVER DIE? Have Lucifer’s sins of the pre-earth world died yet? What about Cain’s or Hitler’s or Mao’s or Heber J. Grant’s, or John Y. Barlow’s or Lynn’s sins? 1st Doctrinal Statement of “Utah Saints:” “IF THEY COULD CLOSE THEIR EYES TO HUMAN FAULTS [SINS?] FOR JUST A MOMENT THEY COULD SEE THIS ALL CLEARER.” Isn’t this exactly what the “virtuous sister” in my Stake President’s story did? She closed her eyes to her own sin and lived in hell and turmoil for the next 60 years. Why will covering sin also never work for any of us? What spirit is it that says, don’t mention it ever, cover your eyes so you don’t see the significance of not repenting of your sins or don’t labor to comprehend the seriousness and eternal consequences of not fulfilling all the steps required to receive the grace or forgiveness from the Lord Jesus Christ? What spirit says cover the sins of others? [“when we undertake to cover our sins {or other’s sins?} … behold the heavens withdraw [Holy Ghost] … Spirit of the Lord is grieved and when it is withdrawn …” 2nd Doctrinal Statement of “Utah Saints:” “IT IS NOT ****OUR JOB**** TO SEE THAT THE PRIESTHOOD STAYS ON THE STRAIT AND NARROW.” If we personally hold the priesthood, or are sealed to someone who holds it, is it our job, or calling, to see that we individually receive the Holy Ghost and keep it? If a person has not actually received the gift of the Holy Ghost PRIOR TO being ordained, was priesthood actually obtained by the person receiving the outward form of the ordinance? [see D&C 20:60 : “he is to be ordained by the power of the Holy Ghost which is in the one who ordains him.”] Is it our job to be our brother’s keeper to any degree – ever? What about parents with their children? What about those who legitimately preside? What about those who really are inhabitants of Zion? [see D&C 64:38-40] Is it our commission to cry repentance to this people? What is the difference between crying repentance unto this people and being contentious? [see: D&C 6:9, 11:9, 18:14, 19:21 etc. “Say nothing but repentance unto this generation; KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.” Is the Lord closely equating these two concepts? AND how do you reconcile the following with your point of view? “CONTEND against no church SAVE it be the church of the devil. Take upon you the name of Christ, AND speak the truth in soberness.” [D&C 18:20-21] What is the church of the devil? Isn’t it an “assembly of believers” who now believe in altered doctrines and ordinances that originally thundered from the mouth of God, his true prophets and His angels? [think: Ten Tribes, Jews, Catholics, Protestants, LDS Church, Short Creek and what about many in the AUB?] So – when should we contend and when should we not? See comment response to Steve Allred for more insights on this question: https://turmoilwithinaub.wordpress.com/2015/08/... What is the “strait and narrow”? Why is it that there are only FEW who ever find it? [Mt 7:14] Why does the Lord link, in the following two verses, staying on the strict path of being His disciple with being careful not to follow false prophets which we all can discern by actually examining their fruits or works like committing adultery and stealing etc.? 3rd Doctrinal Statement of “Utah Saints”: “THE SAINTS IN MT. JUST NEED TO REALIZE THAT THIS IS NOT ABOUT TRUTHS OR JUSTICE OR COMMANDMENTS BUT ABOUT FOLLOWING PRIESTHOOD AND BEING UNITED AND NOT BEING CONTENTIOUS.” If this Work is not about the Spirit of Truth, Justice or keeping the Commandments of God, whose work are we involved in? [1 Ne 14:9-10?] If we are following leaders, are united with them and never contend with them, does that make us a pure people or Latter-day Saints? What if we are united to leaders who are inwardly raving wolves and unrepentant sinners? Where is the only place they can lead us to? Do you perceive that the great prophet Isaiah is describing us in the Work? [Isaiah 59: 8-16] 8 "They don’t know where to find peace or what it means to be JUST and good. They have mapped out crooked roads, and no one who follows them knows a moment’s peace. 9 "So THERE IS NO JUSTICE AMONG US, and we know nothing about right living. We look for light but find only darkness. We look for bright skies but walk in gloom. 10 We grope like the blind along a wall, feeling our way like people without eyes. "Even at brightest noontime, we stumble as though it were dark. Among the living, we are like the dead. 11 "We growl like hungry bears; we moan like mournful doves. WE LOOK FOR JUSTICE, BUT IT NEVER COMES. We look for rescue [deliverance], but it is far away from us. 12 "For our SINS are piled up before God and testify against us. Yes, we know what sinners we are. 13 "We know WE HAVE REBELLED and have denied the LORD. We have turned our backs on our God. We know how unfair and oppressive we have been, carefully planning our deceitful LIES. 14 "Our courts oppose the righteous, and JUSTICE IS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. Truth stumbles in the streets, and honesty has been outlawed. 15 "Yes, truth is gone, and ANYONE WHO RENOUNCES EVIL is attacked. The LORD looked and was displeased to find there was NO JUSTICE. 16 "He was amazed to see that no one intervened to help the oppressed [the abused?]. "So he himself stepped in to save them with his strong arm, and HIS JUSTICE SUSTAINED HIM." sm
— A posthaven user